Recently we organised a virtual meet between recent Shillington graduate Amy Georgette Rodgers and one of her creative idols Mandy Barker from award winning studio Sail Creative, to discuss all things studio life, collaboration, process, and graduate portfolios…
Amy Georgette Rodgers in conversation with Mandy Barker from Sail Creative.
It’s quite normal to feel a little lost after graduation. For years or at least months you’ve fully immersed yourself into learning about design and dedicated your life to being a student. You couldn’t wait to finish all your projects and for those deadlines to pass. But now you’re wondering where all the time has gone.
As a recent graduate from Shillington, I have found that having conversations and gaining insight from fellow creatives in the design industry have been invaluable in shaking off that ‘lost at sea’ feeling after graduation. At the end of 2020, I joined my local Ladies, Wine and Design group in Newcastle upon Tyne. The importance of mentorship and asking for advice from fellow creatives has been a topic of conversation that has popped up time and time again.
Lucky for us, there’s a supportive design community out there who are ready and eager to help new graduates and emerging creatives succeed. Through the DesignbyWomen platform, I have had the chance to sit down (virtually, of course) with Mandy Barker, Founder and Creative Director of Sail Creative, a studio that I have admired for a really long time.
Sail’s ethos is all about real-world change through creativity. They resist the ‘usual’ with fearless ideas and bold design. It was really fun to chat with Mandy and discuss how Sail has adapted during these turbulent times and hear her top tips for graduates and new creatives today.
Amy: It’s been a pretty crazy year. How has the pandemic impacted on Sail?
Mandy: We’ve actually been super busy. We work with a lot of small, purposeful businesses who have had to adapt during the pandemic and have really shone. We’re very lucky that we had 4 years of trade and reputation building before going into lockdown, so a lot of our work continued as normal because of connections we already had.
Additionally, the lockdown experience has helped us to step back and assess what we’re doing as a studio. As a design activist, Sail is an extension of me and it will always be a purpose-led studio . This past year has actually been important in solidifying that commitment and finding ways we can do more to affect real-world change with our clients.
With a lot of things moving to online, the past year has also presented a lot of new opportunities that wouldn’t have previously been possible. For instance, recently I’ve been lecturing at the London College of Communication on design activism. Teaching online been a really positive experience.
Amy: What are you looking forward to most when you go back to the studio?
Mandy: I’m really looking forward to seeing the team and collaborating with them again in our studio space. I miss the small things like walks and bike rides to work, and getting inspired along the way. I’m lucky that I have a home office but I am looking forward to having that separation between work and home again.
Interaction is so important and I miss that serendipity of creative chats that you just can’t replace with technology. I’m also looking forward to other little things such as listening to music and sharing experiences with the team.
Amy: I’ve found that the design community in North East of England is really supportive, do you think so too?
Mandy: Definitely. It’s a small community here, but you find that it is around the UK too. You see different names pop up and you start to recognise them. That’s the great thing about the industry at the moment. You can just ask other creatives for a coffee and seek their advice. I’ve informally asked people if they would be my mentor before and they’ve said ‘yes’. You’ve just got to put yourself out there and ask for those chats.
Amy: You’ve worked on both global campaigns like iWeigh, as well as a variety of local campaigns. What have you loved working on recently?
Mandy: That’s a really tough question as we love all of our projects. I really miss face-to-face workshops with clients, so I think one recent project that I particularly loved was for Newcastle Carers. We hosted a series of brand workshops, delivering a new brand and campaign for the charity, including storytelling animations to reach young adult carers who need support.
We had the opportunity to immerse ourselves in that campaign and become a trusted member of the Newcastle Carers team. From that long relationship, the young adult carers found the confidence to launch the campaign themselves in a room full of social workers, teachers and NHS workers. We sat in the audience that day so that it wasn’t about us saying “oh look at what we’ve created” it was about the young adult carers owning it and saying: “we’ve done this.” Their lived experience is what really brought the whole campaign to life. That will always be a fond memory for me.
We’ve just won a DBA award for our work with Newcastle Carers and the award ceremony will be online in June, which means that a lot of the young carers will be able to watch it. It’s going to be great.
Amy: Collaboration seems to play a big part in the way Sail works. How do you collaborate with clients during workshops? Do you collaborate with freelancers too?
Mandy: With workshops we generally have a consultancy approach, which means post-its everywhere and asking difficult questions. We really dig down into the nitty gritty of a brief and find out ‘why do you need what you say you need?’ and ‘who is it for?’
As well as working with internal teams we also collaborate with audiences and communities because often the two can have completely different perceptions of an organisation or business. If you don’t have these conversations at the start you might miss opportunities, so it’s really important.
With regard to collaborating with freelancers; I want Sail to stay small and agile so that we can continue collaborating with other creatives. I think otherwise you become complacent and stagnant. I’ve worked in other agencies in the past and there were some really great minds there, but with Sail I particularly enjoy the fact we get to work with other creatives such as animators, illustrators, designers and copywriters. I love collaborating with businesses and freelancers and I think that is something we will always aim to do. I think that is how we will grow as an industry because people want autonomy in their working lives. The thought of sitting at a desk 9 to 5 is not appealing to everyone, so a more flexible and collaborative approach definitely feels like the way forward in our industry.
Amy: Is there anything you know now that you wish you knew when you were starting out as a designer? Do you have any advice you would give to new graduates?
Mandy: I think the three things that have helped Sail get to where it is and be sustainable is discipline, resilience, and persistence. You’ve got to be willing to put in the hard work, but you’ve also got to be disciplined in looking after yourself and your wellbeing. You can’t pour from an empty cup. Making sure that you’re eating well, going for walks and doing things outside of work that inspire you. You have to be disciplined in planning your work too, otherwise you just get swamped and can’t see the wood for the trees.
Resilience is also key.There will be a lot of challenges ahead and you have got to be able to pick yourself back up and carry on.
And finally, persistence. Just don’t give up. You have got to be a bit bloody minded sometimes and carry on even when people say something isn’t going to work.
Amy: Where do you look for inspiration for projects?
Mandy: Of course, we have studios that we admire and design books that we like, but I try and approach things a little differently and find inspiration from things totally off topic; be it a piece of music, a film or a story. I find that really immersing yourself in a project and asking questions is the best way to get inspiration too. Just being curious in general is so important. I always say to other designers and students if I ever stop being curious, then I may as well choose another career path. If you’re not curious, you’re just not going to find the inspiration you need.
Even though my inbox is always full I still put time aside to read the latest Creative Review or It’s Nice That newsletter. Even if I’m short on time, I’ll scan the headlines just in case there’s something in there that sparks my interest and looks worth saving for later.
Amy: Could you give a little bit of insight into your design process?
Mandy: I would say 70% of a project is research, coming up with ideas and concepts, and doing workshops. Sometimes we can be working on a project for months with a client and it’s not until the last month that we actually pull it all together, after all the research has been completed. It’s very important to make sure the client agrees with all of the design decisions before going ahead and creating a brand toolkit for example.
Amy: Do you think it is important to see process in a designer’s portfolio?
Mandy: Before Sail, I remember when I was a graduate applying for roles and some studios liked seeing process and others didn’t. I personally like to see it. Even if it’s just a page or a paragraph explaining how you worked with the client, any workshops you did, what research you undertook, that kind of thing. It doesn’t have to be extensive. If we put all of our research into a case study at Sail it would be absolutely huge and no one would want to read it. It’s best to just touch upon on it someway during an interview. It could be just a piece of inspiration that led to your concept or idea. Just keep it short. It worth taking the time to get your portfolio right when looking for roles and a portfolio is always ongoing, it’s never finished.
Amy: Any advice for graduates and their portfolios?
Mandy: Share those self-initiated projects in your portfolio. I personally find them really interesting. They often show something a bit different, something with more passion. They tell employers a bit more about you and your interests.
Keep your portfolio short too. Maybe only 4-5 projects that you really love and can talk about with confidence. If you can’t talk about a project with passion, don’t put it in. At Sail we put new projects on our website every month and they take a lot of time to prepare. People new to the industry need to have that discipline and take the time to get it right. In general, just keep it clean and simple and let your work do the talking.
Amy: Do you have any final words of advice for women and under-represented creatives considering a career in the design industry today?
Mandy: Trust yourself. Know your value. Don’t let the fact you don’t know the software put you off. You can learn software; thinking, attitude and curiosity is what makes you unique. Don’t be scared of failure – society pushes this on us to stop us going out and trying new ways of working. It is time for change. Welcome failure and welcome mistakes, they are undoubtably the best way to learn. Do not let an ideal of perfection hold you back. It’s no longer about clean, Swiss design and speaking like ‘a brand’. It’s about being human and embracing experiences, imperfections, flaws. Clients are starting to see this. People want real. Make sure your thinking and personality comes across in interviews/online, don’t hide behind your work. The industry is growing, we cannot replace creative thinking. It’s an exciting time to contribute to change. You have to start somewhere, it won’t happen overnight. Surround yourself with like-minded, motivated people. If you don’t know them, find them. Be patient, work hard and get back up when you fall. Resilience is everything.
