Alice Murray’s early artistic inclinations pointed her to a unique career in design. Her career path unfolded from an initial internship at Frost design in Sydney to the dynamic design scene in London, shaped by mentors like Grant Alexander and Angus Hyland.
In her first role after university, Alice progressed from a junior to a senior designer at New Zealand based Studio Alexander, in just four years. This eventually led to a role as an Associate Partner at Pentagram in London, where her dedication and resilience fuelled her creative talent. The experience of working under Angus Hyland’s wing has cultivated in her an unyielding pursuit of craft, an appreciation for the resources of art history, and the confidence of sound project management. As she tells us, “The strong sense of craft and ambition to do great design is part of Angus’ mentality. Despite varying budgets and the different scale of projects we will hone and craft the work until it’s as good as we can get it.”
Alice’s industry experience has given her first-hand insight into the gender pay debate and the challenges that women and gender expansive designers can face in their careers. She started the Lost Time project with creative partner Lauren Priestley in 2020 using a calendar as a “powerful daily reminder” to highlight the UK’s gender pay gap of 17.3 per cent in an impactful way by making the 63 days a year that women effectively work for free “invisible” to the eye. As she points out the conversation shouldn’t be just “about the money women lose to the gender pay gap, but also the time”.
We talked with Alice to find out more about what her current role as Associate Partner at Pentagram involves and her thoughts on creating more equitable design industry practices.
How did you initially become interested in a career in design?
From a young age I was interested in art, drawing, painting, and making things. None of my family were involved in the creative industry and I remember zoning out of many dinner table conversations about business and commerce, so I knew that wasn’t for me. Throughout school I spent all my free time in the art block. I had some very encouraging art teachers, who pointed me to study design.
Can you tell us about your career path and how you’ve progressed to where you are now?
After studying design at Massey University in Wellington (Bachelor of Graphic Design Hons) I was fortunate enough to get an internship at Frost design in Sydney. Following the internship, I returned to New Zealand where I worked at Studio Alexander. Grant Alexander had an unwavering confidence in me, along with Sam Trustrum, the creative director and I transitioned from a junior to a senior designer within 4 years. I then moved to London where I felt like a small fish in a big pond. I reached out to anyone I knew for contacts in the London design industry. Vince Frost, who had previously worked at Pentagram, got back to me, and put me in touch with Pentagram Partner John Rushworth. That led me to a Senior Designer position with Angus Hyland to cover a 6-month maternity leave. I recall being nervous as hell taking over from his Associate Partner, but my parents always taught me that with hard work one can meet any challenge. After a little over a year, I became an Associate Partner and have been working alongside and learning from Angus ever since.
Have there been any key pivotal moments in your career that have helped you to develop?
Working with good people. In all my roles I have been fortunate to meet brilliant designers who inspired me to do better work. I’ve been lucky to find people who had confidence in me and placed me in important roles even when I didn’t feel fully prepared. Their support has helped me to develop immensely.
What are the key things you’ve learnt from working in Angus Hyland’s team at Pentagram?
Craft, art history and how to run projects with confidence. The strong sense of craft and ambition to do great design is part of Angus’ mentality. Despite varying budgets and the different scale of projects, we will hone and craft the work until it’s as good as we can get it. This passion and persistence keep the team moving forward and enforces the spirit of wanting to create good work consistently. Obviously this sounds all well and good, but at times we do come up against clients or committees that can dilute the design work. Then it’s necessary to move on and focus on the next project. Angus’ knowledge of art history and how it can influence the creative process or a response to the brief has filtered down to me over our years of working together. As an Associate Partner to Angus, from the beginning he opened up all conversations to include me throughout the design process. He had confidence in me and that over time has helped me to gain confidence in what I am doing. This experience also led to quick learning on my part and exposure to a wide range of clients, from corporate to start-ups across many sectors with varying scales of budget, learning how best to work to achieve a successful outcome in any given case.
“Despite varying budgets and the different scale of projects, we will hone and craft the work until it’s as good as we can get it. This passion and persistence keep the team moving forward and enforces the spirit of wanting to create good work consistently.”
What do you enjoy most about your role and what do you find most challenging?
I would say the most enjoyment in my role comes from the designers I work with in the team, as well as the variation in our clients. Pentagram attracts talented designers and I have worked with many while working here. Understanding and being empathic towards different designers I am working with is something I try to do, enabling everyone to feel like part of the same ship. We also often collaborate across teams, so for example on the Soufflé project, we worked with partner Jon Marshall and his team and that’s always interesting and an advantage of the Pentagram structure.
Most challenging? Creative pitches. I find these difficult – they don’t quite sit right with me. Yes, when you win it is rewarding and can lead to large scale projects and ongoing relationships. But in most cases, you are trying to do a large piece of creative work in a very short amount of time, with little or no budget. I would like to see a shift in the industry that would be fairer in terms of the budgets, expectations and limitations set on competing agencies so from the get-go there is an even playing field.
“ I would like to see a shift in the industry that would be fairer in terms of the budgets, expectations and limitations set on competing agencies so from the get-go there is an even playing field.”
What does your current role as Associate Partner at Pentagram involve?
When I was living in London, my role as an Associate Partner involved working with Angus Hyland, managing the team, client presentations and creative work (the benefit of a small team). I have recently returned to New Zealand and started back from maternity leave so my role looks a little different. With opposing time zones, it means less client meetings and team management and more design work.
Are there any barriers or challenges that you have faced during your career that stick in your mind? If so, how did you overcome them?
The lack of female senior leaders in the industry has had an impact; it makes me want to start a design studio and become a leader for the younger generation. I have recently become a mother and after having to juggle the balance of career and family I can see more clearly how family roles impact directly on women’s careers. If countries gave equal leave to parents regardless of gender, more like the Finnish approach, it might give women the time and support to do both.
“The lack of female senior leaders in the industry has had an impact; it makes me want to start a design studio and become a leader for the younger generation.”
Why did you and Lauren Priestley decide to start the Lost Time project in 2020?
Lauren and I both work as creatives. We had become frustrated with the conversation around pay, having seen first-hand friends or colleagues who weren’t being paid their worth as females. Lost Time was born out of this frustration. Our goal was to create something meaningful that brought these shocking statistics to life in an everyday way. We chose a wall calendar because it was something that could serve as a powerful daily reminder. This conversation shouldn’t be just about the money women lose to the gender pay gap, but also the time.
“We had become frustrated with the conversation around pay, having seen first-hand friends or colleagues who weren’t being paid their worth as females. Lost Time was born out of this frustration. Our goal was to create something meaningful that brought these shocking statistics to life in an everyday way.”
It was important for us to give our time to this cause and all profits go towards organisations empowering female creatives. Ladies, Wine & Design, Designers Speak (Up) and Creative Equals have all supported us along the way. If there was transparency around pay grades across creative and other sectors it could help to remove the anxiety people have around asking for more money and allow people to see their worth more readily. We have taken a break year (I have been on maternity leave, and Lauren is working between continents) but we have exciting plans for the next stage of Lost Time, and are always looking for creatives to join us.
Do you have any advice for emerging designers just starting out in their careers?
Maintaining hope can be important and give you the energy that the next client you work for might be the best work you do. That will keep you showing up each day with a positive attitude and applying a good work ethic to even the most menial of tasks.
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